killaGAW
FESSer
HOLLA AT A PLAYA WHEN YA SEE EM ON THE STREET
Posts: 235
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Post by killaGAW on Apr 17, 2004 11:43:55 GMT -5
Have you ever thought of all the pain and suffering they have caused. Many of the chracters killed for fun (Vaida or Karel are good examples). A lot of those enemies were probaly like Dorcas or Guy and did what they did just to get by. A few of the chracters did regret what they did like Eliwood but they're in the minority. They did some noble things but also some questionable actions. Its about perspective if you were those poor meatbags of Fargus' crew, Kishuna, or a bandit just trying to get by to help your family they'd be the bad guys. They technically were breaking an entry into Kishuna's home. Then killing him for living there damnit it's his tower and cave. If someone breaks into your home you have a right to beat the burglars till the brains come running out thier nose. Just look at Hector he's one of my favorite chracters but he enjoys killing( it is fun to slaughter everything thing with him). Even more so Karel what justifies him killing everything(again its fun and easy though). Your chracters are not totally innocent they have taken many a life and caused much pain and suffering to the families of thier victims. Nergal was evil and had to be stopped but in my opinion Sonia was worse (she wanted to kill Nino but Nergal didn't). Nergal did and would have caused more evil deeds than your chracters, but Kishuna did nothing he even helped you when fighting Aion. He has blood on his hands than your characters and certainly less than Nergal.
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Shoen
FESSer
I AM THE LAST WORD
Posts: 2,647
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Post by Shoen on Apr 17, 2004 11:47:39 GMT -5
Ever seen Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home?
Kirk commited all these crimes, BUT FOR THE BETTER OF THE UNIVERSE. So, therefore he was excused of all but one charge.
Think about it. Don't you think afterwards ALL OF THEM CHANGED FOR THE BETTER? Is the effect more important than the action? I don't know. But this is an example when it seems right.
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Post by Marthstar on Apr 17, 2004 16:11:15 GMT -5
regarding karel, he's not as bad as he pretends he is. I mean, he didn't kill karla or guy. They're certainly as good as him, if not better (guy's certainly better) he says he's trying his best not to kill them, but i really don't think he wants to...
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Post by GreenShyguy on Apr 17, 2004 16:40:52 GMT -5
Um, if you kill them for fun in your game, then that would mean you, the tactician, is evil, not the characters. Besides, you're not supposed to kill Vaida and Karel; you're supposed to recruit them.
But Dorcas amended his ways and changed sides. None of the other guys did that.
And to reply to Arf asking if Kishuna is Renault's friend: I think not, because you could potentially send Renault against Kishuna.
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Post by XSolaris on Apr 17, 2004 16:56:17 GMT -5
regarding karel, he's not as bad as he pretends he is. I mean, he didn't kill karla or guy. They're certainly as good as him, if not better (guy's certainly better) he says he's trying his best not to kill them, but i really don't think he wants to... Actually, storyline wise, Guy compared to Karel is only an amateur. If you read Guy and Karel's Support Convos, you'll find out that's the exact reason why Karel does not kill Guy. After Karel becomes Guy's master and Guy eventually becomes better (in their A support convo), Karel tells Guy to leave because if he gets any better he wont be able to resist the urge to fight and kill him. Um, if you kill them for fun in your game, then that would mean you, the tactician, is evil, not the characters. Besides, you're not supposed to kill Vaida and Karel; you're supposed to recruit them. I believe you misunderstood what was said, The characters Karel and Vaida kill for fun/just to prove their worth. You'd know if you read their Support Convos. Besides, you as the tactician can't even kill Karel for fun since he appears as an NPC. But Dorcas amended his ways and changed sides. None of the other guys did that. Dorcas wouldn't have amended his ways if Lyn never talked to him and told Dorcas that his wife was with Lyn. Furthermore, by the story, Lyn had the Talk option with Dorcas BECAUSE Natalie shown Lyn her husband's picture, and Lyn recognized Dorcas in person. Lyn would not have been able to convince him, or probably wouldn't have even tried, if Natalie was not with her. In other words, if Hector ran into that group of bandits with Dorcas in them, without having Natalie around, he would have slaughtered Dorcas along with all the other bandits without thinking twice.
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Shoen
FESSer
I AM THE LAST WORD
Posts: 2,647
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Post by Shoen on Apr 17, 2004 20:28:19 GMT -5
In other words, if Hector ran into that group of bandits with Dorcas in them, without having Natalie around, he would have slaughtered Dorcas along with all the other bandits without thinking twice. You make it sound like Hector has no conscience.
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killaGAW
FESSer
HOLLA AT A PLAYA WHEN YA SEE EM ON THE STREET
Posts: 235
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Post by killaGAW on Apr 17, 2004 21:40:31 GMT -5
I was saying that the Vaida and Karel kill for fun without thinking twice not that I would kill them in the game.
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Post by XSolaris on Apr 17, 2004 23:33:47 GMT -5
You make it sound like Hector has no conscience. Not what I meant. I was just saying if it was another army who ran into the bandits at a different time, they probably wouldn't have coincidentally ran into Natalie also and would just slaughter the bandits without considering that some of the bandits are just doing it to save their family. I only used Hector as an example, that's all.
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Shoen
FESSer
I AM THE LAST WORD
Posts: 2,647
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Post by Shoen on Apr 17, 2004 23:36:53 GMT -5
I wasn't trying to say what you meant. I told you my feelings to a part of your point I observed. Not everything I'm going to say is going to contradict you.
But I do have a theory on this:
There is no forgiveness for sins, true, but every heard of this?:
"To err is human, to forgive is divine."
Think about, and I will take your reply.
EDIT: Also, heard of modifying?#nosmileys
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Post by GreenShyguy on Apr 17, 2004 23:43:30 GMT -5
But they are supporting characters. And only two at that. There are what? Close to thirty playable characters and two of them have questionable motives? Big deal. Besides, this doesn't prove that the nobles are evil.
Regarding Dorcas and other bandits. They chose a life of destruction and chaos. It doesn't matter whether chance allowed someone to convince them to join another team; nobody forced them to join.
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ucantseeme
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"Talking to you is just a neverending headache."
Posts: 199
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Post by ucantseeme on Apr 18, 2004 0:05:49 GMT -5
Wow. Confusing. 2 people with the same side pic posting consecutively. My thoughts on this, killing Kishuna isn't really a crime. Kishuna is a morph. If you notice in Light, every time you kill a morph (Uhai, Darin, etc.) they kind of smile right before they die. They might have done this just to put him out of his misery. In any case, the end justified the means.
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Post by XSolaris on Apr 18, 2004 0:27:05 GMT -5
I wasn't trying to say what you meant. I told you my feelings to a part of your point I observed. Not everything I'm going to say is going to contradict you. But I do have a theory on this: There is no forgiveness for sins, true, but every heard of this?: "To err is human, to forgive is divine." Think about, and I will take your reply. Sorry, not really sure what you're getting at... EDIT: Also, heard of modifying? Changed my avatar to avoid confusion...
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Post by superbus on Apr 18, 2004 0:32:48 GMT -5
and I don't know how to make a website to host my own pictures. Why not just
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killaGAW
FESSer
HOLLA AT A PLAYA WHEN YA SEE EM ON THE STREET
Posts: 235
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Post by killaGAW on Apr 18, 2004 1:41:45 GMT -5
But they are supporting characters. And only two at that. There are what? Close to thirty playable characters and two of them have questionable motives? Big deal. Besides, this doesn't prove that the nobles are evil. Regarding Dorcas and other bandits. They chose a life of destruction and chaos. It doesn't matter whether chance allowed someone to convince them to join another team; nobody forced them to join. I never said the nobles were evil did I. Regarding Dorcas and the other bandits when your're that desperate there aren't many choices you can make.
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Post by GreenShyguy on Apr 18, 2004 4:29:20 GMT -5
I always thought they smiled because they found inner peace, and because they were finally free of Nergal's influence.
No, but you used the disposition of two people to make it sound like the entire party is evil. Most of your party members do not kill for fun; they actually have a purpose.
Dorcas may have been desperate, but when bandits are wrecking entire villages, slaughtering innocents (Lorca Tribe), kidnapping women, etc. etc., then I think people have a right to defend themselves. I fail to see how Dorcas' and other bandits' desperation supercedes everyone else's rights to live in peace.
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