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Post by The dark prince on Sept 19, 2003 22:16:37 GMT -5
anyone enjjoyed the movie today? hmm i like it better then the other two since there less talkin and more fighting
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InsaneZero
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The Original Newbie Killer Extrodinaire!
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Post by InsaneZero on Sept 19, 2003 22:44:20 GMT -5
Repeat:
STUPID TOEI!
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Post by Gunlord100 on Sept 19, 2003 23:41:17 GMT -5
"Dude, Funimation screws up everything. Look at Yu Yu Hakusho. (If I hear Kuwabara's HORRIBLE HORRIBLE DBZ villain voice one more time, I'll kill something. That is not how he was originally portrayed.)
Quote:I'd rank DBZ on the same level as Sailor Moon-where Moon is an estrogen-filled girly show of mediocre quality, and although there are a few moments of honest drama, it's mainly a cash cow targeted at young girls.
Question: Which version are you referring to? American TV = as you said. Japanese TV = better. Manga = nothing like what you said.
Honestly, I think if you want to make a judgment on the quality of Sailor Moon's plot, you should first disregard filler episodes. Most long-running shows have them; it's not just SM and DBZ. Sailor Moon is much better without the filler episodes...to use the example of the second season, it's just okay during fifty gazillion attempts by the Black Moon family to steal energy/power up dark crystals/et cetera, but once you get down to the time warping, Sapphire's betrayal of his family, Wiseman's betrayal of everybody, the truth about why the people of Nemesis are attacking, and so forth, it's five hundred percent better.
I will, however, concede that the deaths start to mean less when you realize that the ginzuishou always ends up bringing everyone back to life. (Same deal with DBZ and the Dragon Balls. Death doesn't mean crap anymore, because everyone comes back. Sigh.)
Quote:Thus, people like Iris, for instance, derive some pleasure from the girly, sparkly Sailor Moon due to its innate appeal to the female nature,
But female nature doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching some buttkicking YYH action, too. ^_~
Quote:although both shows are empiracally quite vapid and pale in comparison to fare such as Neon Genesis Evangelion or Grave of the Fireflies
It's not really a fair comparison. Long running series, as I said above, all have filler episodes, and when you take those into account, the quality goes down because it doesn't have to be so damned long. And the TV format and the movie format both have different plusses and minuses, so you can't really compare a show with Grave of the Fireflies. TV shows can present much longer plots, but every plot element has to be broken up in a way that fits into 22-minute episodes, which can mess things up. Movies can flow however best fits the story, but have more limited running time. Apples and oranges."
Iris, I was mainly referring to American TV, although I believe much the same could be said of the Japanese versions of both shows (not the manga-I've seen a little bit of Japanese DBZ and heard of how much better Sailor Moon is). If you really want to judge DBZ's plot, Iris, I'd advise you disregard the filler episodes as well. Just like if you throw away the crappy filler for Sailor Moon, there's plenty of genuine drama to be found, if you disregard the humungous amounts of filler where nothing happens in DBZ other than guys screaming, there's plenty of genuine drama to be found-I point again to Piccolo's self-sacrifice for Gohan, Goku's transformation into a Super Saiyan, and most notably, Gohan's transformation into Super Saiyan lvl. 2 after the Gentle Android is killed by Cell. Also, Majin Buu's transformation from evil to good is very poignant in the original japanese, just like there are many poignant moments in the Japanese version of Sailor Moon.
However, I will admit that you are quite correct in pointing out the faulty comparison between TV shows and movies. Please forgive me for my faux pas, but I couldn't really think of any other good examples...TV fare, although it has its moments of greatness, is typically mediocre, due to the filler, as you said. I can't think of any other TV anime that have lasted as long as the DB and Sailor Moon franchises. I think both have around 400 or so episodes all together, and the only other anime series that comes to mind as a worthy comparison, such as Yu Yu Hakusho, doesn't have nearly as many episodes, from my understanding...however, I much prefer Yu Yu to both DBZ and Sailor Moon put together. I'll have to see it in the original Japanese sometime, FUNimation messes things up horribly...
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Post by Lord Ryu Li Ri Tzu on Sept 20, 2003 9:15:58 GMT -5
Actually, DB, DBZ, and DBGT have some 500+ episodes combined...
Anyway, that's a really good point with the filler episodes. Also, when series run for too long... things naturally start to get old. That's why I liked the first half of DBZ better... after a while, EVERYONE Saiyan could transform into a Super Saiyan, the Saiyans were the only ones fighting and the humans became neutral after a while... it just got sad after a while. Even though Majin Buu was a cool villain... and fusions were... okay, and Future Trunks was cool for about ten episodes... and Garlic Jr. wasn't bad either (he shouldn't have gotten his own Saga though), just about everything else past Frieza wasn't too great. Bandai shouldn't've made DBGT... it was just too messed up to intertwine with the other series. Also, you made a good point Iris... death is meaningless in DBZ after a while. In DB, there were... how many people brought back to life? And in DBZ... there were how many billion resurrected? I mean... after a while it's like "... oh, he got killed." "Don't worry! We'll just use the Dragonballs to bring him back to life!"
And I've also heard elsewhere the DBZ manga is better. The only problem is that I can't find it in many places...
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kanzakii
FESSer
I don't hate people. I hate idiots.
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Post by kanzakii on Sept 20, 2003 12:10:18 GMT -5
And I've also heard elsewhere the DBZ manga is better. I can assure you about that. |
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Iris
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President of SueKilling Society
That's PRINCESS Iris to you, bitch. <3
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Post by Iris on Sept 20, 2003 16:57:46 GMT -5
Um, where was I judging DBZ's plot? I didn't say anything about DBZ's plot sucking.
Shorter series don't really suffer from this problem the way the long ones do, though.
Actually, Sailor Moon has around 200 episodes. Yu Yu Hakusho has 144.
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Post by Lord Ryu Li Ri Tzu on Sept 21, 2003 0:16:38 GMT -5
I guess that means the entire Dragonball series was longer than Sailor Moon and Yu Yu Hakusho combined...
If I remember right, DB had like 100 or 200 somethin' episodes, DBZ had 300 or low 400 somethin' episodes... and DBGT had 64 episodes. That's just going off of memory though... I haven't seen the exact numbers...
Anybody know how many movies/specials/etc. any of the other animes mentioned here have? I believe there were 4 DB movies, 13 DBZ movies plus 2 specials, and 1 DBGT special... which would be a grand total of 20! There might be a few here and there I missed... but the number's around 20 somewhere...
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kanzakii
FESSer
I don't hate people. I hate idiots.
Posts: 470
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Post by kanzakii on Sept 21, 2003 0:20:09 GMT -5
I usually dislike the movies.
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Post by Gunlord100 on Sept 21, 2003 12:19:59 GMT -5
Quote:If you really want to judge DBZ's plot, Iris, I'd advise you disregard the filler episodes as well. Um, where was I judging DBZ's plot? I didn't say anything about DBZ's plot sucking. Quote:TV fare, although it has its moments of greatness, is typically mediocre, due to the filler, as you said. Shorter series don't really suffer from this problem the way the long ones do, though. Quote:I can't think of any other TV anime that have lasted as long as the DB and Sailor Moon franchises. I think both have around 400 or so episodes all together, and the only other anime series that comes to mind as a worthy comparison, such as Yu Yu Hakusho, doesn't have nearly as many episodes, from my understanding... Actually, Sailor Moon has around 200 episodes. Yu Yu Hakusho has 144. Er, Iris, I didn't mean to insinuate that you were ragging on DBZ's plot, I was just trying to make the point that without the filler, it has some moments of honest drama. I'm not trying to rag on SM either, I can understand the show's appeal, even though I might not share it-what I'm trying to say is that if you look at both shows, they come out to be about equal in quality once you get rid of the filler-as I said above, both have their moments of honest drama. Please forgive me if I gave you the impression that I was trying to disparage Sailor Moon-I've actually watched the show a couple of times, even though the only reason was that I thought the Sailor Scouts had nice legz ;] Also, you're quite right in saying that shorter series don't suffer from the filler problem as acutely. Please forgive my stupidity yet again in trying to compare long-running series, such as DBZ and SM, to shorter fare. However, are you sure Sailor Moon has only 200 episodes?  I thought it was much larger than that...when I made my estimation about the numbers of DB episodes, I took into account ALL the series-DB, DBZ, and DBGT. I thought there were some more auxilliary series to Sailor Moon beyond just the original...stuff like Sailor Moon Super S or something like that (I can't recall the name exactly, please forgive my most horrendous ignorance ^^;;;;; ). |
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Post by Lord Ryu Li Ri Tzu on Sept 21, 2003 14:16:49 GMT -5
Uhh... weren't the Sailor Moon (insert letter) things more like movies than part of a series?
I don't know much about Sailor Moon... so, yeah...
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Iris
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That's PRINCESS Iris to you, bitch. <3
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Post by Iris on Sept 21, 2003 21:53:01 GMT -5
Okay, time for Sailor Moon 101!
There are five seasons of Sailor Moon, averaging around forty episodes each (I don't have the exact count handy).
Sailor Moon: The original. Tsukino Usagi (dubbed as Serena) finds out that she's Sailor Moon. Mercury, Mars, Jupiter, and Venus are also introduced. Enemy is Queen Beryl and her boss (Queen Metalliana in Japanese, "the Negaforce" in the dub). Chiba Mamoru (dubbed as Darien), the resident love interest, is introduced, as is the relationship (after some transparent and childish rivalry). Dubbed by DiC.
Sailor Moon R: Second season. Split into two parts--the first thirteen episodes reawaken the Sailor senshi to fight against two aliens, Ail (dubbed as Alan) and Ann, and their "Doom Tree." (Ail was voiced by Midorikawa Hikaru, by the way. uNF~!) The second half brings in invaders from the dark moon Nemesis, who were banished from Earth in the future and have returned to reclaim it in the present. Sailor Pluto first appears, as does Usagi and Mamoru's future daughter, Chibi-Usa (dubbed as Rini). The concept of the future in Crystal Tokyo is introduced, along with Usagi's future form, Neo Queen Serenity. Dubbed by DiC.
Sailor Moon R movie: Doesn't really fit anywhere in the second season timeline. An alien named Fiore shows up and tries to abduct Mamoru, who is an old friend of his, and destroy the world with the help of another alien, the Kisenian. (Fiore and the Kisenian are tributes to Ail and Ann--Fiore has a similar appearance, and they have the same voice actors as Ail and Ann). The sub was actually released before the dub in America--this was the case with all three movies.
Sailor Moon S: The third season. Enemies are Pharaoh 90, Mistress Nine, Professor Tomoe, and the Death Busters (dubbed as the Bureau of Bad Behavior...blegh). Sailor Neptune and Sailor Uranus (yes, they are THE LESBIANS) are introduced. Sailor Pluto returns. Chibi-Usa gains the ability to transform into Sailor Chibimoon. Sailor Moon gains the ability to become Super Sailor Moon. Sailor Saturn appears. This season is the fan favorite. Dubbed by Cloverway.
Sailor Moon S movie: An evil ice queen, Kaguya, shows up and tries to freeze the world. Luna (Usagi's guardian, a cat) falls in love with an astronomer named Kakeru, who is human and already taken by an astronaut named Himeko. Sailor Moon defeats Kaguya and uses her power to let Luna become human for one night, so she can be with Kakeru; Luna uses this time to fix Kakeru and Himeko's failing relationship.
Sailor Moon Super S: Queen Neherenia and the Dark Moon Circus appear. They are chasing after Helios, who has taken the form of a pegasus and is hiding out in Chibi-Usa's dreams...blah blah blah. This is generally the least favorite season among fans, because it focuses on Chibi-Usa rather than Usagi, and takes a plotline with potential for some very dark and intense drama (I'll elaborate on this only if you guys ask; this explanation is getting rather long as it) and sugarcoats it. Sailor Moon and Sailor Chibimoon use joint attacks and transformations, where they previously fought separately. Dubbed by Cloverway.
Sailor Moon Super S movie: Queen Badiyanu shows up and tries to engulf the world in a "Black Dream Hole," in which everyone will be trapped in their dreams forever. One of the dream fairies helping her, Peruru, realizes that her motives are less than pure after he befriends Chibi-Usa, and the Sailor senshi defeat Badiyanu.
Sailor Moon Stars: Neherenia briefly returns, but the real villain of the season is Galaxia and the Sailor Animates. Mamoru leaves for America and is attacked en route, so while Usagi is left wondering why he never writes, there's some romantic tension between her and Seiya, who is really Sailor StarFighter. The Sailor Starlights are introduced--StarFighter, StarMaker, and StarHealer. The Starlights are also one of the reasons we'll probably never see Stars dubbed (yay for gender-bending)...well, that and that Usagi spends the last episode naked. Princess Kakyuu is introduced, as are Sailor Cosmos and Chibi-Chibi. This season has not been released in America.
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NoBaka
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Olympic Fencer in Training
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Post by NoBaka on Sept 22, 2003 10:36:27 GMT -5
Wow.
You weren't kidding when you said you were a SM fan. ^^;;
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Iris
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President of SueKilling Society
That's PRINCESS Iris to you, bitch. <3
Posts: 1,380
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Post by Iris on Sept 22, 2003 11:35:29 GMT -5
Haha. And I didn't even get into manga or Sera Myuu there, either.
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Dark Link
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Post by Dark Link on Sept 23, 2003 17:38:33 GMT -5
I feel so alone....
Yup. I like the FUNi version of DB/DBZ (Haven't seen GT yet, not out in Oz). DragonBall/Z were the first anime shows I had seen and it got me hooked.
I love the show. Its one of my favourites. Both Japanese and English.
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Post by Lord Ryu Li Ri Tzu on Sept 24, 2003 8:16:03 GMT -5
I first started on the English version of DBZ too...
For some reason I still watch it... maybe just to get as much out of the plot at possible...
Plus, the English dub is pretty funny at times...
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the fated meeting
I thought it was much larger than that...when I made my estimation about the numbers of DB episodes, I took into account ALL the series-DB, DBZ, and DBGT. I thought there were some more auxilliary series to Sailor Moon beyond just the original...stuff like Sailor Moon Super S or something like that (I can't recall the name exactly, please forgive my most horrendous ignorance ^^;;;;; ).
