NoBaka
FESSer
Olympic Fencer in Training
Posts: 2,155
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Post by NoBaka on Aug 29, 2003 10:12:11 GMT -5
Yes true, except all Nintendo characters are straight. No point in messing with perfection. Plus, I don't want games that'll cause a public outcry. Anything that draws parental controversy is a bad idea if you ask me. I can think of only one exception. Cloud and Barret. I know, I know. It isn't technically Nintendo, but this rule is true for virtually every game in existence. Except for Pong. If you're looking for same sex pairings, look in Pong.
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Post by kyuusei on Aug 29, 2003 12:44:25 GMT -5
Technically? It's not Nintendo at all.
The Cloud/barrett date is kinda funny though. :P
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Post by Gunlord100 on Aug 29, 2003 14:01:07 GMT -5
Ummm...NoBaka, please excuse my ignorance, but how is Pong gay? I thought it was just two paddles bouncing a ball back and forth...nothing homosexual with that...right?
Also, for the pairing thing, yeah, Kyuusei, like only special pairings could get S-rank. What I'm thinking of is that Elwood, for instance, could get an A with Hector or any other male character, but could only get an S rank with Lin, Fiora, or Ninian, cause they're his possible lovers.
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Post by The dark prince on Aug 29, 2003 18:50:48 GMT -5
I love chapter 14 and 20 of Thracia 776 and wish they'll never end. Too bad the best chapters are the once with a round limit. what about when your weapons run out? do then want the stage to still go on?
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Iris
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President of SueKilling Society
That's PRINCESS Iris to you, bitch. <3
Posts: 1,380
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Post by Iris on Aug 29, 2003 20:23:19 GMT -5
I have to disagree. That's why we have the ESRB ratings in place, for one thing. And if parents don't want their kids to see something in their games, then the parents need to get off their asses and do a little research. Look at what their kids are doing, instead of using TV, games, and the internet as a babysitter. And look at parents today--there are a bunch of them whining about Harry frickin' Potter. If you want to avoid parental controversy, you're seriously limiting the potential to tell a good story. I know a lot of you are just into Fire Emblem for the strategy, but I like my plot, thank you very much.
You're not familiar with Fear Effect 2, then? *cough*
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Post by Gunlord100 on Aug 29, 2003 22:36:06 GMT -5
Well, Iris, the reason I'd be willing censor homosexuality, swear words, and other things that might arouse parental controversy in FE7 is that, quite frankly, from my understanding, it's almost irrelevant to the plot. So there are two gay pirates and Leyvan and Lucea could be homos. If you take those elements out, you'd still have a very solid plot-One support and a couple of pirates doesn't really detract from the overall greatness of FE7. It would be completely stupid to risk parental controversy over an male-male A support, a couple of pirates, and perhaps a bunch of other things. Same things with the swear words-a few hells and damns turned to hecks and darns don't really mean much, we know what they mean I'd understand your resistance to censoring the homosexuality in a game like Fear Effect 2, because Hana and Rain's relationship is actually central to the plot, from what I've heard-never played the game. The bottom line is, Iris, that FE7 already has a very good plot without raising controversy. Why should we jeopardize that? A game doesn't have to be controversial to have a good plot-look at all the other FE games, I don't see anything offensive about them (although crazy Christian fanatics could, seeing how magic is present both in FE games and Harry Potter ) and they have excellent plots. For a game like Fear Effect, yeah, it has to be controversial to reach its artistic potential. I don't think Fire Emblem has to arouse controversy to become a great game-it already is On a practical note, technically speaking, Fire Emblem games are not mature in the sense of ESRB ratings. Aside from sexual references and swear words, etc. Fire Emblem could very possibly score an E, or AT MOST, a T (even with the sexual references, I'd give it a T). FE games lack violence, graphic sex, and other mature things. The greater whole of these games can be enjoyed by everybody, so I don't see any reason not to remove secual references, swear words, etc. that some people would find offensive so that everybody can enjoy the game.
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kanzakii
FESSer
I don't hate people. I hate idiots.
Posts: 470
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Post by kanzakii on Aug 30, 2003 2:33:53 GMT -5
Fear Effect 2 is a different story...Eidos tends to think that the customers would be greatly aroused by the sexy polygonal models, (that reminds me of Lara Croft from Tomb Raider, also.) But then, Fear Effect 2 is decided for mature audience (If I remember correctly...it is a M-rated title?), and it is on Playstation 2. (Comparing Sony and Nintendo...doesn't Sony have more so-called mature games, while Nintendo has the games which are for generally everyone? ) Fire Emblem, (despite the fact that it has the same initial as Fear Effect...) however, is on Nintendo. They made Fire Emblem to be easily accepted by the general public. It is probably a traditional thing from Nintendo... P.S. Lesbians are different from Gays, no... ?
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Post by BlueRondo on Aug 30, 2003 7:45:47 GMT -5
The problem with the homosexual relationships is that, if they bring back the second generation idea from FE4, then the gay couples couldn't have any kids!
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Iris
FESSer
President of SueKilling Society
That's PRINCESS Iris to you, bitch. <3
Posts: 1,380
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Post by Iris on Aug 31, 2003 1:40:05 GMT -5
Point the first: No matter how you argue it, you will never be able to convince me that censorship is a good thing. *shrugs* It's the way I think. I'm a writer. It pains me to see things cut or changed just to avoid controversy.
Point the second: If you're old enough to be playing a Fire Emblem game, you're old enough to handle the word "damn." We're not talking about a game marketed to five-year-olds, for crying out loud.
No matter what the form, I don't take censorship lightly. No matter how "harmless" it is. If you're not old or mature enough to handle whatever was there originally, you should damned well wait until you're old enough or mature enough to handle it. I like my characters and their profanity (I'm sure as hell not going to say "oh, fiddlesticks!" when someone drives a lance through my chest, I'm going to be pulling out every damned curse in my vocabulary). And I don't want to see my gay characters recast as cousins or some such crap (thank you, Sailor Moon...).
My entire point of view on this subject comes down to the fact that I'm a writer. I'm naturally protective of words, mine or someone else's. I have this Trigun fanfic I wrote called "Sunday's Child." It's PG-13 because there is profanity. Sure, I could cut the cursing and give it a lower rating. The main meaning is still there. But it's not the way I wanted it. It might still work at a more kid-friendly rating, but I don't give a crap. If it's changed from the way I envisioned it, I will take offense.
Not that I presume to speak for the feelings of the Fire Emblem scriptwriters, though. But nonetheless, I can not and will not ever condone censorship for the sake of not offending people. Because people need to get the hell over it. The world isn't a sugary happy place where everyone is straight and nobody cusses.
Edit: Forgot to address this...
Gunny: If people are really determined (and I can assure you that a lot of them are), they can find something offensive in just about anything. I've heard it seriously argued that Pride and Prejudice is racist because all the characters are white. Stupid? Yes. Beyond stupid. But nothing is immune, so I see no reason to try to please all the people all of the time, when it flat out can't be done.
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Post by kyuusei on Aug 31, 2003 1:54:00 GMT -5
Sounds like me. Except I write and draw. Not that I'm a hentai artist, but I don't exactly draw fluffy crap either. (I do stop at male genitals though. Ew.)
Reminds me of Xenosaga... I still find it ridiculous how this one scene with MOMO and Albedo was totally edited just for North American audiences. Please, this is the country with the most violent movies and crap in the universe. And Xenosaga had to be toned down? Give me a break, the scene was actually a lot more effective in the import. And for fuck's sake, it wasn't child molestation!
And Iris... it's not that people CAN find offense in the most petty crap.. they DO. Why don't they just go read/watch/play something more fluffy then? Bah.
I don't think anyone suggesting FE's better off with more controversial stuff in it. I just don't see anything wrong with the way it is. There's gay pirates in one whole chapter. How much harm is that gonna do? Hell, as it is, FE would get an E rating anyway, even if nothing was different in the English version. I just hate when stuff is so horribly toned down for North America of all frickin' places in the world, especially when it's really unnecessary and/or it's done at the cost of a good plot point.#nosmileys
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kanzakii
FESSer
I don't hate people. I hate idiots.
Posts: 470
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Post by kanzakii on Aug 31, 2003 2:20:43 GMT -5
Actually I have no problem with the offensive and controversial materials, but then, from those scriptwriters and game manufacturers point of view, it might not be a good idea to raise controversy in their products.
I didn't touch on the matter of censorship in my eariler post...(*cough* I didn't know we were talking about the censoring...) Well, originality is essential. Let things be what they were intended to be. If changes are to be made, it should be applied to things which don't make sense, or totally irrelevant.
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Post by TerranigmaFreak (admin) on Aug 31, 2003 9:54:45 GMT -5
Actually I have no problem with the offensive and controversial materials, but then, from those scriptwriters and game manufacturers point of view, it might not be a good idea to raise controversy in their products. That's exactly why I was trying to say but it just came out wrong.
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Post by BlueRondo on Aug 31, 2003 10:29:54 GMT -5
I'm against censorship as well. As Iris pointed out, if the game/movie/story/song has some naughty words or touchy situations, then slap a higher audience rating on the cover; it's up to the audience whether they want to risk reading or viewing the material.
The thing is, however, that Fire Emblem is a game made by a business bent on making profits. I'm not sure how well Fire Emblem will be recieved in North America, but limiting the audience the game caters to will not help sales. I don't like FE being censored and toned-down, but I'd hate it if the series never came to North America again just because of some minor issues in the story. There will be censorship, no doubt, so I just hope it's minimal (if I see someone say "fiddlesticks" I will scream.)
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Post by Gunlord100 on Aug 31, 2003 17:20:25 GMT -5
I agree with BlueRondo. Now, I do NOT condone censorhip-nothing irritates me more than all the violence, dirty jokes, etc. they removed from DBZ, or the multitude of censors thay gave to Kenshin. However, I'd still recieve a slightly censored version of FE, so long as it wasn't absolutely bastardized like Kenshin or DBZ, I'm happy with it. After all, half a loaf of bread is better than none.
However, Iris, I TOTALLY agree with you in that FE shouldn't be censored without the scriptwriter's consent. If someone screwed with one of the essays I wrote, for instance...well, I'd go freaking postal. However, so long as the FE scriptwriters themselves aren't changing it...it's okay with me.
Also, Iris, I'll completely agree with you that some people are so stupid that they'll be offended by ANYTHING. I still can't understand what some people have against Harry Potter, for instance. However, for every fruitcake who's offended at Harry Potter, there are millions more who either love him or don't give a crap. Thus, even if you can't please all of the people all of the time, you might as well try and please some of the people some of the time, or hell, maybe if you get lucky, most of the people most of the time. I have no problem with FE trying to do that. After all, perhaps people SHOULD not be so touchy about minute details like homosexuality and stuff, but the point is, they ARE. The world isn't a sugary-happy place where nobody's offended by anything, and we just have to take the sensitivities of others into account.
Also, I think maybe everyone's blowing this out of proportion, and the game won't be too censored at all. After all, if homosexuality, for instance, is only subtly referenced to, perhaps Nintendo thinks little kids won't realize this and still give the game an E. We can always hope...
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NoBaka
FESSer
Olympic Fencer in Training
Posts: 2,155
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Post by NoBaka on Sept 1, 2003 12:16:54 GMT -5
I agree with BlueRondo. Now, I do NOT condone censorhip-nothing irritates me more than all the violence, dirty jokes, etc. they removed from DBZ, or the multitude of censors thay gave to Kenshin. However, I'd still recieve a slightly censored version of FE, so long as it wasn't absolutely bastardized like Kenshin or DBZ, I'm happy with it. After all, half a loaf of bread is better than none. Agh. They removed enough dialogue from Sanosuke and Saitoh alone to make a new arc. But still, if the choices are six-year-old dialogue or none, I would take it. Except Kenshin. Cause that burned. And Gunlord? I was kidding about the whole Pong being gay thing, dude. Still, I agree with Iris that there should NOT be censorship in the first place. What do they think those ratings are for. If you've got an eight year old son, you're not gonna take him to a porno flick just because you like the title! You would check to make sure it's appropriate first. And instead of bitching about how it should be watered down, DO SOMETHING ELSE!! It's like how they canceled Zim! Parents complained that it was too scary, so Nick moved it to 10:30 PM. They kept complaining, so it was canceled. And why? Because their kids don't wanna get up and change the channel Disgusting. If you don't like it, don't buy/watch/rent/etc. it. It's that simple.
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